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GALLANTE HEAVY sentinel.. EHP 2,650.....

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Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1139	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:16:00 - [1] - Quote Cmdr Wolfe wrote: has anybody else looked at the patch notes for 1.8 (work in progress) i did some number crunching and the gallante heavy has a rather large amount of hitpoints base hitpoints= 940 4 x complex armor plates 135x4= 540 1 x complex shield extender =66 sub total= 1,546 plus ARMOUR ans shield SKILLS bonus= 50% bounus 1,546= TOTAL HITPOINTS= 2,319 PLUS A RESISTANCE BONUS= 15% vs railgun tech TOTAL MAXIMUM POSSIBLE EFFECTIVE HITPOINTS= 2,650..... isnt that a little too much? thats more than a dropship... have mercy on the poor caldari souls who would go up against 16 of these bohemoths!!! i think SHIELD vs ARMOUR needs to be balanced once more. I... wow. Learn to math, holy ****. First, 525 base armor + 390 base shields = 915. How you got 940 I will never know. Second, armor and shield skills provide 25% to armor and 25% to shields. Which is not the same as 50% to the entire HP pool. If you don't get why that's the case... go back the middle school. Third, armor and shield skills only affect base suit HP, not HP after modules. Fourth, the resistance bonuses only apply to shields or armor, not both. In the Gallente's case, it applies only to armor. I'm not going to redo your calculations for you, but you are very, very wrong. Everyone, you can safely ignore the OP's post.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1141	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:26:00 - [2] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Cmdr Wolfe wrote: has anybody else looked at the patch notes for 1.8 (work in progress) i did some number crunching and the gallante heavy has a rather large amount of hitpoints base hitpoints= 940 3 x complex armor plates 135x4= 540 1 x complex shield extender =66 sub total= 1,546 plus ARMOUR ans shield SKILLS bonus= 50% bounus 1,546= TOTAL HITPOINTS= 2,319 PLUS A RESISTANCE BONUS= 15% vs railgun tech TOTAL MAXIMUM POSSIBLE EFFECTIVE HITPOINTS= 2,650..... isnt that a little too much? thats more than a dropship... have mercy on the poor caldari souls who would go up against 16 of these bohemoths!!! i think SHIELD vs ARMOUR needs to be balanced once more. Considering everything melts armor far easier than shield, I think that's fine. I use the Gal Logi, so I know. I also use the basic heavy plenty, and see a huge difference between how difficult it is to take down armor vs shields. Spkr, swallowing this sad excuse for math only proves that either a. you don't read and think before you speak or b. you're too dumb to understand basic math or c. you have no grasp of this game's infantry mechanics.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1143	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:33:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Cmdr Wolfe wrote: has anybody else looked at the patch notes for 1.8 (work in progress) i did some number crunching and the gallante heavy has a rather large amount of hitpoints base hitpoints= 940 4 x complex armor plates 135x4= 540 1 x complex shield extender =66 sub total= 1,546 plus ARMOUR ans shield SKILLS bonus= 50% bounus 1,546= TOTAL HITPOINTS= 2,319 PLUS A RESISTANCE BONUS= 15% vs railgun tech TOTAL MAXIMUM POSSIBLE EFFECTIVE HITPOINTS= 2,650..... isnt that a little too much? thats more than a dropship... have mercy on the poor caldari souls who would go up against 16 of these bohemoths!!! i think SHIELD vs ARMOUR needs to be balanced once more. I... wow. Learn to math, holy ****. First, 525 base armor + 390 base shields = 915. How you got 940 I will never know. Second, armor and shield skills provide 25% to armor and 25% to shields. Which is not the same as 50% to the entire HP pool. If you don't get why that's the case... go back the middle school. Third, armor and shield skills only affect base suit HP, not HP after modules. Fourth, the resistance bonuses only apply to shields or armor, not both. In the Gallente's case, it applies only to armor. I'm not going to redo your calculations for you, but you are very, very wrong. Everyone, you can safely ignore the OP's post. In the case of the Amarr sentinel is gets a bonus to both shield and armor. http://i.imgur.com/cZqf5pH.png Right, but the same resist doesn't ever apply to both shield and armor. 15% armor vs projectile and 10% shield vs blaster is still not 15% to both armor and shields against the same damage type, which is what the OP states is the case with Gal vs rails.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1148	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:44:00 - [4] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Galthur wrote: The math isn't correct but the ehp can reach roughly 2,000. A basic heavy can get over 1,000 ehp without mods (fotm) except the minmatar which is basically a slower medium frame, with less potential ehp Minmatar Heavy gets 1031.25 base HP without mods, if your shield and armor HP skills are maxed. 168.75 HP less than an Amarr Sentinel, though. That a Complex Armor Plate of difference and then some,eep. But still a fat stack more than any medium frame. Kincat-stacked HMG flanker is going to be deadly if played right.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1158	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:31:00 - [5] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: You guys caught many of his mistakes, but did anyone remember to factor in the stacking penalties for equipping four armor plates? Assuming, for the sake of argument, that 135 is the correct value for armor plate it would be: 135 + 117 + 77 + 38 = 367 Not 135 x 4 = 540 Fox you disappoint me greatly. HP modules do not have stacking penalties. Are you trolling? Asha: The correct way is to multiply percentages, i.e. Base armor EHP vs explosives = Base armor * 1.25 * 0.8.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1158	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:34:00 - [6] - Quote Mods, please lock this thread for being a veritable fountain of misinformation.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1165	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:03:00 - [7] - Quote Scheherazade VII wrote: and in come the math nerds this is pretty weak sauce on the math nerd scale. Also, welcome to the EVE universe. Math beats not-math every time.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1168	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:10:00 - [8] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: You guys caught many of his mistakes, but did anyone remember to factor in the stacking penalties for equipping four armor plates? Assuming, for the sake of argument, that 135 is the correct value for armor plate it would be: 135 + 117 + 77 + 38 = 367 Not 135 x 4 = 540 Fox you disappoint me greatly. HP modules do not have stacking penalties. Are you trolling? Asha: The correct way is to multiply percentages, i.e. Base armor EHP vs explosives = Base armor * 1.25 * 0.8. I did at first but felt that the numbers were screwy, my logic at the time a 10% resist didn't cancel a 10% damage bonus and they weren't off by that much, a couple tens at the most. The resist is actually slightly more effective for having been multiplied in. Let's say it's a blaster vs shields (10% bonus) against an amarr sentinel (10% blaster resist to shields), with a base blaster damage of 100/hit. Damage before resist = 110, after resist = 110 - (110*.1) = 99. You're right that it's a very small difference, but I've survived with 0 shield and 0 armor enough times to appreciate the tiny differences.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1174	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:58:00 - [9] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: You guys caught many of his mistakes, but did anyone remember to factor in the stacking penalties for equipping four armor plates? Assuming, for the sake of argument, that 135 is the correct value for armor plate it would be: 135 + 117 + 77 + 38 = 367 Not 135 x 4 = 540 Fox you disappoint me greatly. HP modules do not have stacking penalties. Are you trolling? Asha: The correct way is to multiply percentages, i.e. Base armor EHP vs explosives = Base armor * 1.25 * 0.8. I did at first but felt that the numbers were screwy, my logic at the time a 10% resist didn't cancel a 10% damage bonus and they weren't off by that much, a couple tens at the most. The resist is actually slightly more effective for having been multiplied in. Let's say it's a blaster vs shields (10% bonus) against an amarr sentinel (10% blaster resist to shields), with a base blaster damage of 100/hit. Damage before resist = 110, after resist = 110 - (110.1) = 99. You're right that it's a very small difference, but I've survived with 0 shield and 0 armor enough times to appreciate the tiny differences. But see that's what doesn't sit well with me. How I see it is that (.8) isn't acting on the shields/armor(x) but the incoming projectile(y) 500hp = xhpb 500hp = yhpa xhpa - yhpb = 0 set y = x, for illustrative purposes and it becomes xhp(a-b) Hmm, I see what you're saying. Now I'm unsure. I wish the devs would clarify this sort of thing
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1174	Posted - 2014.02.26 22:27:00 - [10] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: You guys caught many of his mistakes, but did anyone remember to factor in the stacking penalties for equipping four armor plates? Assuming, for the sake of argument, that 135 is the correct value for armor plate it would be: 135 + 117 + 77 + 38 = 367 Not 135 x 4 = 540 Fox you disappoint me greatly. HP modules do not have stacking penalties. Are you trolling? Really? Does that apply to Shield Extenders too? Has CCP ever explained why plates donGÇÖt have a stacking penalty? I have never equipped more than two plates so I never noticed. Yes, it also applies to shield extenders. I don't think they've ever explained it because it seems so intuitive. Something like increasing speed or weapon damage gets harder the more you try to increase it. In contrast, each inch of armor is as thick and armor-y as the last inch and the inch after it. I think you're probably the only person in the whole game who has never stacked more than two armor plates

Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1175	Posted - 2014.02.26 22:48:00 - [11] - Quote The Terminator T-1000 wrote: Cmdr Wolfe wrote: has anybody else looked at the patch notes for 1.8 (work in progress) i did some number crunching and the gallante heavy has a rather large amount of hitpoints base hitpoints= 940 4 x complex armor plates 135x4= 540 1 x complex shield extender =66 sub total= 1,546 plus ARMOUR ans shield SKILLS bonus= 50% bounus 1,546= TOTAL HITPOINTS= 2,319 PLUS A RESISTANCE BONUS= 15% vs railgun tech TOTAL MAXIMUM POSSIBLE EFFECTIVE HITPOINTS= 2,650..... isnt that a little too much? thats more than a dropship... have mercy on the poor caldari souls who would go up against 16 of these bohemoths!!! i think SHIELD vs ARMOUR needs to be balanced once more. It would have to be a pro to suit first of all. Second, no one stacks 4 complex armor plates. If they did, they would not be able to move. They would have no armor repair and would need a logii wow this kid. I don't even have words to describe it.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1218	Posted - 2014.02.27 15:36:00 - [12] - Quote WolfeXXVII wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A. Where are the armor repairers? At least one is needed B. 15% resist applies to armor, not total HP C. Where are you getting 50% from? You take BASE HP, then add +25% for armor and shields. On top of that, you take plates/extenders, add +10% to those and then slap them on suits. You can't put extenders/plates first and THEN add the bonus. Actual max eHP: Base HP: 525 * 1.25 + 390 * 1.25 = 1143 Plates: (132 * 1.1) * 4 = 580 Extenders: 66 * 1.1 = 72.6 Total HP = 1795 15% resist total HP: 2014 2014 is the maximum eHP a Gal heavy can have. on top of that heavies should be OP compared to an assault suit so before you FOTM fukers with gal logi's start pitchen a fit realize that the heavies effectively way 2-3 times as much as the assault that alone warrents 3000 EHP and a fuk ton a damage that I haven't seen since early chromozome shoties You just won't shut up will you? Making baseless claims off of weight (weigh, not way) again, in a new thread because I beat you in yours. Stop. Talking. Heavies are fine now and they'll be fine in 1.8, better even, they don't need an idiot like you arguing for another heavy buff.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1218	Posted - 2014.02.27 15:46:00 - [13] - Quote Soldier Sorajord wrote: Awry Barux wrote: WolfeXXVII wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A. Where are the armor repairers? At least one is needed B. 15% resist applies to armor, not total HP C. Where are you getting 50% from? You take BASE HP, then add +25% for armor and shields. On top of that, you take plates/extenders, add +10% to those and then slap them on suits. You can't put extenders/plates first and THEN add the bonus. Actual max eHP: Base HP: 525 * 1.25 + 390 * 1.25 = 1143 Plates: (132 * 1.1) * 4 = 580 Extenders: 66 * 1.1 = 72.6 Total HP = 1795 15% resist total HP: 2014 2014 is the maximum eHP a Gal heavy can have. on top of that heavies should be OP compared to an assault suit so before you FOTM fukers with gal logi's start pitchen a fit realize that the heavies effectively way 2-3 times as much as the assault that alone warrents 3000 EHP and a fuk ton a damage that I haven't seen since early chromozome shoties You just won't shut up will you? Making baseless claims off of weight (weigh, not way) again, in a new thread because I beat you in yours. Stop. Talking. Heavies are fine now and they'll be fine in 1.8, better even, they don't need an idiot like you arguing for another heavy buff. Lol, Do you even run heavy guys? Bout the only thing that's heavy about a heavy is that they're slow, and can carry a big gun. Otherwise, they're really not all that great. Their health melts away fast, and medium suits can easily do about 3/4 their health and be more effective than they can. About the only map they're good on is the City Underground Dom. I've been running heavy all week. Heavies are fine right now, and they're getting a big buff in 1.8. The only map they suffer on is Manus Peak.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1223	Posted - 2014.02.27 16:01:00 - [14] - Quote Martyr Saboteur wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: According to my math, fully tanked proto heavies with full core shield/armor skills will have max EHP as follows (excluding resistances, and assuming all high/low slots are used for complex shield extenders and complex armor plates): Caldari - 947 Shield, 636 Armor - 1583 EHP Gallente - 560 Shield, 1250 Armor - 1810 EHP Minmatar - 705 Shield, 841 Armor - 1546 EHP Amarr - 595 Shield, 1196 Armor - 1791 EHP With the heavy's resistance to splash damage, they will be able to tank 1 remote explosive directly and still have 548-740 EHP remaining. Note: I haven't confirmed whether these fits will work in terms of CPU/PG (since I don't run heavies and don't care enough to check). Edited to add: After resistances are accounted for, the maxed out heavies above will need 4 shots from a standard shotgun to drop them. Smh, the Amarr suits want to be useful but it just cant because the "Everything Amarr can do the Gallente can do better" pops into existence. Im a sad Amarrian Yup. The Gallente get More Armor, Passive Reps, More EHP (barely, but still), two Armor resistances that add up to a better resistance percentage because they have more armor, and More Speed. The Amarr Get... 35 more shields, and some extra stamina. I don't see any good reason to use Amarrian Suits over Gallente ones... Amarr is getting 2H3L vs 1H4L for Gal. An extra complex damage mod in exchange for a small EHP drop = a good trade in my book.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1235	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:53:00 - [15] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Martyr Saboteur wrote: Yup. The Gallente get More Armor, Passive Reps, More EHP (barely, but still), two Armor resistances that add up to a better resistance percentage because they have more armor, and More Speed. The Amarr Get... 35 more shields, and some extra stamina. I don't see any good reason to use Amarrian Suits over Gallente ones... Amarr get a better resist against the HMG. They can brick tank quite well. Despite being the slowest Sentinel, the Stamina and Stamina regen make them good for Speed fit. The Gallente Sentinel will be good, but I am not convinced that it will be better than the Amarr Sentinel. Foxy you forgot that the Amarr Sentinel is getting the basic frame's slot layout- 2 highs at proto = a major damage advantage over the Gal sentinel.